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	<title>Comments on: Swift Boat Veterans</title>
	<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2004/08/21/swift-boat-veterans/</link>
	<description>Pragmatic Libertarianism</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1</generator>

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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2004/08/21/swift-boat-veterans/#comment-641</link>
		<author>john</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2004 18:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2004/08/21/swift-boat-veterans/#comment-641</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately polls are suggesting that these ads are working.  Bush denied any connection with the swift boat group but then the Bush campaign attourney resigned after it was revealed that he was repressenting the swiftboat group.

Sinking to perhaps a new low, the Bush campaign is now exploiting the olympic games in an political ad.  Scumbag.  
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately polls are suggesting that these ads are working.  Bush denied any connection with the swift boat group but then the Bush campaign attourney resigned after it was revealed that he was repressenting the swiftboat group.</p>
<p>Sinking to perhaps a new low, the Bush campaign is now exploiting the olympic games in an political ad.  Scumbag.</p>
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		<title>By: Mum</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2004/08/21/swift-boat-veterans/#comment-640</link>
		<author>Mum</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2004/08/21/swift-boat-veterans/#comment-640</guid>
		<description>After what the 'swiftie' group did to John McCain, I'll be happy when their lies about Kerry come back to haunt them -- which they will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After what the &#8217;swiftie&#8217; group did to John McCain, I&#8217;ll be happy when their lies about Kerry come back to haunt them &#8212; which they will.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2004/08/21/swift-boat-veterans/#comment-639</link>
		<author>john</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2004 02:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2004/08/21/swift-boat-veterans/#comment-639</guid>
		<description>Jeremy,

Thanks for your response.  First, you are exactly right to wonder about Kerry’s testimony.  I seriously question it as well for exactly the reasons you mention.  I find it hard to believe that these actions took place regularly.  There is certainly a component of self-promotion in his testimony.   

As for conservative bias in your post; you state “this ad is devastating”.  You make no suggestion that this is a politically motivated attack which may distort the facts.  Also, your bias is clear from what you choose to post.  I should give you some credit though for being less biased than most.  You have been willing to be very critical of the president.  

I try not to be too emotionally invested in my opinions.  Like you, I’m enjoying the heated political debate.  I believe the outcome of this election will have important consequences for our country’s future though and so  I’m taking it seriously.  You are probably right, though, we’re screwed either way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy,</p>
<p>Thanks for your response.  First, you are exactly right to wonder about Kerry’s testimony.  I seriously question it as well for exactly the reasons you mention.  I find it hard to believe that these actions took place regularly.  There is certainly a component of self-promotion in his testimony.   </p>
<p>As for conservative bias in your post; you state “this ad is devastating”.  You make no suggestion that this is a politically motivated attack which may distort the facts.  Also, your bias is clear from what you choose to post.  I should give you some credit though for being less biased than most.  You have been willing to be very critical of the president.  </p>
<p>I try not to be too emotionally invested in my opinions.  Like you, I’m enjoying the heated political debate.  I believe the outcome of this election will have important consequences for our country’s future though and so  I’m taking it seriously.  You are probably right, though, we’re screwed either way.</p>
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		<title>By: Cody</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2004/08/21/swift-boat-veterans/#comment-638</link>
		<author>Cody</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2004/08/21/swift-boat-veterans/#comment-638</guid>
		<description>Amen to Jeremy's reply above.

The bitterness of the partisonship in this race scares me.  Slanderous races like this, when matched with enough momentum have the power to derail our government structure.  It reminds me of the history of the pre-civil war years.

I personally think that we would be in quite a similar situation whether our post 9/11 president be democrat or republican.  You can say what you want, but without any retaliation whatsoever, any president would know his term was surely over.

I find the current progression of fingerpointing quite unnerving.

What happened to our responsibility to our constitution and the election process?  Is somebody going to blow up this year when they lose and call the whole system a farce?  Let's face it, hanging chads have existed for decades, but our fathers were respective enough of the process that they didn't tread where they shouldn't.  There's a line, invisible though it may be, where one man's proper authority ends and another's begins.  I see everybody stepping out of bounds lately; presidents, judges, congress members, and even running opponents.

It scares me to ask what comes next in this political degradation...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen to Jeremy&#8217;s reply above.</p>
<p>The bitterness of the partisonship in this race scares me.  Slanderous races like this, when matched with enough momentum have the power to derail our government structure.  It reminds me of the history of the pre-civil war years.</p>
<p>I personally think that we would be in quite a similar situation whether our post 9/11 president be democrat or republican.  You can say what you want, but without any retaliation whatsoever, any president would know his term was surely over.</p>
<p>I find the current progression of fingerpointing quite unnerving.</p>
<p>What happened to our responsibility to our constitution and the election process?  Is somebody going to blow up this year when they lose and call the whole system a farce?  Let&#8217;s face it, hanging chads have existed for decades, but our fathers were respective enough of the process that they didn&#8217;t tread where they shouldn&#8217;t.  There&#8217;s a line, invisible though it may be, where one man&#8217;s proper authority ends and another&#8217;s begins.  I see everybody stepping out of bounds lately; presidents, judges, congress members, and even running opponents.</p>
<p>It scares me to ask what comes next in this political degradation&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2004/08/21/swift-boat-veterans/#comment-637</link>
		<author>john</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Aug 2004 19:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2004/08/21/swift-boat-veterans/#comment-637</guid>
		<description>Your link takes me to an ad for a book called “unfit for command”.  I can’t see the ad you’re talking about but apparently it shows Kerry giving testimony before the Senate critical of the war in Vietnam.  I gather that you “absolutely hate the guy” because you think he helped cause the suffering of soldiers who were tortured by “communist animals”.  Actually it was the “communist animals”, not John Kerry, who were torturing our soldiers.  It was our government who put them in the position to be tortured by sending them into combat.  Blaming Kerry seems a stretch.  

You claim that his testimony was calculated “merely to gain political notoriety”.  I don’t doubt that was part of his motivation.  He was probably also motivated by his conscience, though.  Maybe he should actually be praised for feeling morally obligated to stand up for what he believed.  There is no way that you can say with certainty what his motivations were.	

There is an excellent, objective article in the Washington post today regarding the debate about Kerry’s service.  The post article says “establishing the facts is complicated not merely by fading memories and sometimes ambiguous archival evidence, but also by the bitterly partisan nature of the presidential campaign” and “The Post's research shows that both accounts contain significant flaws and factual errors.”  You should acknowledge this complexity and be careful about jumping to conclusions about who is telling the truth.  Your conservative bias clearly affects your ability to weigh both sides of this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your link takes me to an ad for a book called “unfit for command”.  I can’t see the ad you’re talking about but apparently it shows Kerry giving testimony before the Senate critical of the war in Vietnam.  I gather that you “absolutely hate the guy” because you think he helped cause the suffering of soldiers who were tortured by “communist animals”.  Actually it was the “communist animals”, not John Kerry, who were torturing our soldiers.  It was our government who put them in the position to be tortured by sending them into combat.  Blaming Kerry seems a stretch.  </p>
<p>You claim that his testimony was calculated “merely to gain political notoriety”.  I don’t doubt that was part of his motivation.  He was probably also motivated by his conscience, though.  Maybe he should actually be praised for feeling morally obligated to stand up for what he believed.  There is no way that you can say with certainty what his motivations were.	</p>
<p>There is an excellent, objective article in the Washington post today regarding the debate about Kerry’s service.  The post article says “establishing the facts is complicated not merely by fading memories and sometimes ambiguous archival evidence, but also by the bitterly partisan nature of the presidential campaign” and “The Post&#8217;s research shows that both accounts contain significant flaws and factual errors.”  You should acknowledge this complexity and be careful about jumping to conclusions about who is telling the truth.  Your conservative bias clearly affects your ability to weigh both sides of this issue.</p>
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