Democratic Values?
I’m an optimistic and proud Democrat living in the most Republican state in the country. I have made it one of my goals to try to help change the existing political power structure in my state because I believe one party rule is bad for Utah. I also believe that in Utah the Democratic Party is friendlier to my libertarian leanings than the Republican Party is. I think there are lots of Utahns who think similarly to the way I think and I believe there is a great opportunity for Democrats to make great gains over the next few years as the Republican Party further shows itself to be the fraud that it really is.
Unfortunately there is a vocal element in my party which makes it extremely difficult for most people to accept the idea that the Democratic Party could ever represent them. Check out this post at One Utah (one of my favorite local blogs on the left).
I don’t think belittling people who believe in God is a winner for Democrats and yet a small vocal constituency among Democrats is anti-God (they would say anti-superstition). These people argue that the whole religious divide is a significant difference between them and the rest of us. I agree. It is a significant difference and it may just be a deal breaker for Democrats as they try to get Utahns to come aboard. People who think God is superstition typically have a very different idea about the purpose of government than those of us who think our existence is the result of the divine.
A little bit of tolerance from both sides would go a long way toward making our party more palatable to many Utahns…but as the post and corresponding comments at One Utah show…we still have some work to do.
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Well said, and I agree completely. The far-left is just as bad to the Democratic party as the far-right is to the Republican party, which I was a card-carrying member of until Richard Nixon ruined it. The only way Dems will ever take back Utah is if they stay moderate and find solutions that the religious majority of Utah find reasonable. This post by Cliff Lyon is one of the most puzzling, and counter-productive ones he has ever published. I have no idea what he intended to accomplish, but it sure backfired.
Comment by Part of the Plan — September 25, 2006 @ 10:39 am
Ed, While I myself was certainly bothered by Cliff’s post, I think it is important that we distinguish between the far left, as you put it, and the secular left. They are not identical. I myself could certainly be considered a member of the far left, being very supportive of Dennis Kucinich, Nader, and even partial to Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky. But I am a faithful and active member of my faith. It does indeed hurt the liberal cause when the secular left allows the poor examples of the Religious Right to corrupt their view of faith in general. But that is a separate issue from that of the far left.
Comment by Derek — September 25, 2006 @ 11:37 am
I think the far left can be a hindrance to a Democratic Party resurgence in Utah but not when they are thoughtful and willing to have a friendly dialog. I certainly don’t think any of us need to surrender our beliefs to start building a strong party in Utah but I do think we need to accept the idea that in Utah the party is going to be more conservative than it is nationally. We need to be a reasonable alternative to the unthinking Republican herd.
The thing I like most about the Democratic Party in Utah is that it can be equally hospitable to both the libertarian/conservative leaning folks and people on the left. This is a big advantage we have that the Republicans with their dogmatic orthodoxy don’t enjoy.
We just need to change the prevailing view that Democrats are overtly hostile to the opinions and views of most Utahns. The post in question at One Utah doesn’t work toward that goal and I’ve griped on their site in the comments about other posts covering non-religious topics that are overly hostile towards many in the community we will need to make the Democratic Party viable in Utah.
Comment by Jeremy Manning — September 25, 2006 @ 12:38 pm
Opps
It was not my intention to offend anyone by posting those quotes from A Letter to a Christian Nation. I suppose I was being lazy and probably a bit provocative on a Sunday morning. I am happen to be personally obsessed with the recent emergence of the Evangelical Right in the national political discourse and the very real intersection in public policy. Again, it was not meant to offend, I simply find the numbers informative in providing perspective. I invite anyone to submit a top post in response.
…and yes I did refer specifically to SOME LDS folks on a subsequent comment responding to Ken Bingham. I said, “But the fact remains, there is a faith test thing going on in the evangelical/LDS culture. And the bar is always moving.”
And my good name within the LDS community allows me to point out without being disrespectful, that there is a very real undercurrent of “faith testing” in the LDS community as well as others. Its not a denominational thing, its a characteristic of any organization with strong dogma. And when a group devolves into faith testing, bad things happen.
So Jeremey, I apologize if you were offended. I am sorry. I think my response to Derek explains well, my issue with religion gone amuck.
Great Site Jeremy!
Comment by Cliff — September 25, 2006 @ 6:29 pm
Cliff,
Thanks for the compliment. I think your follow up comment in response to Derek does bring up some really vital issues that are real yet rarely discussed. I once had a commenter on this site who made a similar argument about how scary religion can seem to someone who believes that it is all just superstition. I eagerly await Derek’s response to your comment because I don’t have any good answers in my mind about how the “superstitious” could ever put the skeptic’s mind at ease regarding their intentions. The two views have completely different underlying assumptions behind every policy they support.
As I said before…I really do enjoy reading One Utah and even when I gripe I remain a fan.
Comment by Jeremy Manning — September 25, 2006 @ 9:47 pm
Derek, I agree with you that the far-left and the secular left are not identical. I disagree with where you put them relative to one another on the sliding scale. I consider myself to be secular in that I am a non-practicing Southern Baptist. I believe in God and pray to Him quite regularly…I just don’t subscribe to the formal, organizational aspects of the Baptist or any other religion. I am definitely NOT of the far-left variety, which is where I would place Cliff and all the sign waving, Rocky Anderson hippy war protesters. As I’ve blogged about quite often at my place, I absolutely respect those people and defend their right to express themselves any old way they choose. Unfortunately, however, I think those people and those activities are counter-productive in that they do more harm than good with respect to changing the attitudes of moderate Utah Republicans so that they will, for once in their life, consider voting for a similarly moderate Democrat and thus restore the two-party system to this state (and the U.S. Congress as well). That objective, in my opinion, is far more important than the momentary warm fuzzy they get by doing their outrageous thing in front of the TV cameras.
As Bruce Bartlett puts it in his book Imposter, “There is always the danger that the Democrats will come to their senses and repudiate the left-wing craziness that characterized their 2000 and 2004 campaigns, and return to the moderate liberalism that was so successful for Bill Clinton.” I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Comment by Part of the Plan — September 26, 2006 @ 9:59 am
The only thing that makes me more upset than Republicans negatively labeling Democrats is when I hear Democrats labeling Republicans (although I have been guilty of this from time to time).
So I’m not allowed to believe in God if I’m a Democrat? That’s almost as bad as my co-worker telling me I believe in killing babies if I’m a Democrat.
Thanks for the post.
Comment by Sare — September 28, 2006 @ 7:32 pm