Comments on: Chris Cannon: “I’m not a Bigoted Liar” http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/ Pragmatic Libertarianism Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:16:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Jeremy Manning http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2870 Jeremy Manning Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:26:46 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2870 Dennis, Don't you think the police officers on the scene would have reported his exclamations of religious ecstasy if they had happened? They did report that he shouted lots of profanity but neither the victims nor police reported hearing "Allah Akbar". The video of the event doesn’t actually support your claim either if you listen carefully. You can accuse me, the FBI, the Salt Lake Police, the media, the victims of the attack, or anyone else you want of being in denial about Talovic’s true motivations but it won’t change the fact that the evidence doesn’t support your conclusions. There is plenty about Islam for people to criticize without commandeering this tragedy for use in political argumentation. Cannon was wrong to do it and so are you. Dennis,

Don’t you think the police officers on the scene would have reported his exclamations of religious ecstasy if they had happened? They did report that he shouted lots of profanity but neither the victims nor police reported hearing “Allah Akbar”. The video of the event doesn’t actually support your claim either if you listen carefully. You can accuse me, the FBI, the Salt Lake Police, the media, the victims of the attack, or anyone else you want of being in denial about Talovic’s true motivations but it won’t change the fact that the evidence doesn’t support your conclusions.

There is plenty about Islam for people to criticize without commandeering this tragedy for use in political argumentation. Cannon was wrong to do it and so are you.

]]> By: Dennis http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2869 Dennis Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:17:34 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2869 Well Jeremy, as always the Mannings will have the last word here. You never let facts get in the way of your opinions. This case is more complicated than a straight out bombing where the terrorist leaves a suicide note detailing his intentions. The facts are hidden in the many articles, circumstances, and statements of those who knew this boy. He came from a wore-torn Muslim family whose father had fought for an Islamic state. He had a history of angry and violent behavior. He had been removed from school for "looking at AK-47s online". He attended the local Mosque, acquired weapons, and told his girlfriend (the day beforefore the shooting) that "tomorrow will be the happiest day of my life". So he was about to commit and act of murder that was going to bring him great happiness... consistant with other Islamic terrorist's beliefs. There's much, much more here. Including that "Allah Akbar" IS heard on the video (as validated by several solid sources, which is why police now say this may have been dubbed... yeah right). Feel free to spin this anyway you want Jeremy. Denial is a state with an ever-increasing population these days. Well Jeremy, as always the Mannings will have the last word here. You never let facts get in the way of your opinions.
This case is more complicated than a straight out bombing where the terrorist leaves a suicide note detailing his intentions. The facts are hidden in the many articles, circumstances, and statements of those who knew this boy.
He came from a wore-torn Muslim family whose father had fought for an Islamic state. He had a history of angry and violent behavior. He had been removed from school for “looking at AK-47s online”. He attended the local Mosque, acquired weapons, and told his girlfriend (the day beforefore the shooting) that “tomorrow will be the happiest day of my life”. So he was about to commit and act of murder that was going to bring him great happiness… consistant with other Islamic terrorist’s beliefs.
There’s much, much more here. Including that “Allah Akbar” IS heard on the video (as validated by several solid sources, which is why police now say this may have been dubbed… yeah right). Feel free to spin this anyway you want Jeremy. Denial is a state with an ever-increasing population these days.

]]> By: Jeremy Manning http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2868 Jeremy Manning Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:44:05 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2868 Dennis, It is a stretch to say that this had anything to do with his religion...especially with more and more information coming out describing this kid's thuggish behavior throughout his teens. Sorry but the desire of so many on the right for this to be related to Islam is nothing more than religious bigotry for political purposes. It is ugly and foolish. Dennis,

It is a stretch to say that this had anything to do with his religion…especially with more and more information coming out describing this kid’s thuggish behavior throughout his teens.

Sorry but the desire of so many on the right for this to be related to Islam is nothing more than religious bigotry for political purposes. It is ugly and foolish.

]]> By: Dennis http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2867 Dennis Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:25:41 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2867 If Joe Cannon made a mistake then Suljo Talovic, the father of the Trolley Square shooter Sulejman Talovic, made a bigger one. He apologized for his son's actions by saying that he believes someone helped him get the guns, trained him, and told him to "go shoot somebody". Also, a cousin, Salih Omerovic, stated that Sulejman Talovic "often attended Friday prayers at the Al-Noor mosque on 700 East in Salt Lake City", which is only one block away from the mall. The actions of this shooter don't have to be proven to have been dictated to him by his Mosque in order for this to be shown to be Islamic Terrorism. He may have decided that this is what he was led to do as a pious Muslim. Or it may be that his father was correct, and that he did receive guns, training, and indoctrination from extremists. Either way, Sulejman Talovic committed an act of terrorism. If Joe Cannon made a mistake then Suljo Talovic, the father of the Trolley Square shooter Sulejman Talovic, made a bigger one. He apologized for his son’s actions by saying that he believes someone helped him get the guns, trained him, and told him to “go shoot somebody”.
Also, a cousin, Salih Omerovic, stated that Sulejman Talovic “often attended Friday prayers at the Al-Noor mosque on 700 East in Salt Lake City”, which is only one block away from the mall.
The actions of this shooter don’t have to be proven to have been dictated to him by his Mosque in order for this to be shown to be Islamic Terrorism. He may have decided that this is what he was led to do as a pious Muslim. Or it may be that his father was correct, and that he did receive guns, training, and indoctrination from extremists. Either way, Sulejman Talovic committed an act of terrorism.

]]> By: Jeremy Manning http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2765 Jeremy Manning Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:57:28 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2765 Joe, Your wrong. I've heard the video. The cops on the scene also think your wrong. Give it up...you can't pin this one on Islam and the fact that you seem to want to do that so badly reflects poorly on you. Joe,

Your wrong. I’ve heard the video. The cops on the scene also think your wrong. Give it up…you can’t pin this one on Islam and the fact that you seem to want to do that so badly reflects poorly on you.

]]> By: Joe http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2762 Joe Mon, 05 Mar 2007 00:29:27 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2762 I don't know why the Congressman backed down so easily. He had a lot of the details wrong, but in the video of the shootout with the police, you can hear someone yelling what sounds like "Allahu Akbar!" at least three times. It's hard to make it out because when it's used as a battle cry it's said very quickly-- for example the hijacker piloting flight 93 said it 9 times in the last 7 seconds before he crashed the plane. If he wasn't saying "Allah Akbar," I don't know what he was saying... watch the video and listen for yourself, between 1:38-1:40, and again later. I don’t know why the Congressman backed down so easily. He had a lot of the details wrong, but in the video of the shootout with the police, you can hear someone yelling what sounds like “Allahu Akbar!” at least three times. It’s hard to make it out because when it’s used as a battle cry it’s said very quickly– for example the hijacker piloting flight 93 said it 9 times in the last 7 seconds before he crashed the plane. If he wasn’t saying “Allah Akbar,” I don’t know what he was saying… watch the video and listen for yourself, between 1:38-1:40, and again later.

]]> By: Jeremy Manning http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2735 Jeremy Manning Tue, 27 Feb 2007 06:55:55 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2735 Dan, Cannon made the mistake while explaining why Americans can never feel safe as long as we have to worry about Islam. Republicans need this argument to be true to explain away their evisceration of the Bill of Rights and the never ending waste of America's finest in pointless battles in Iraq. If Cannon had paid a minimal amount of attention to news coming from his own state he'd know that the story he repeated was bogus. The problem was that the story fit his narrative so nicely that he had to include it. Until Americans realize that scapegoating Islam isn't going to make us any safer I'll keep throwing out charges of bigotry when they fit. Dan,

Cannon made the mistake while explaining why Americans can never feel safe as long as we have to worry about Islam. Republicans need this argument to be true to explain away their evisceration of the Bill of Rights and the never ending waste of America’s finest in pointless battles in Iraq.

If Cannon had paid a minimal amount of attention to news coming from his own state he’d know that the story he repeated was bogus. The problem was that the story fit his narrative so nicely that he had to include it.

Until Americans realize that scapegoating Islam isn’t going to make us any safer I’ll keep throwing out charges of bigotry when they fit.

]]> By: Reach Upward http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2724 Reach Upward Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:14:11 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2724 Daniel, I don't think you quite get the gist of the whole thing. Yes, Cannon made a mistake. But he does this kind of thing all of the time -- to the point that it's difficult to take him seriously. Daniel, I don’t think you quite get the gist of the whole thing. Yes, Cannon made a mistake. But he does this kind of thing all of the time — to the point that it’s difficult to take him seriously.

]]> By: Daniel http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2719 Daniel Fri, 23 Feb 2007 13:49:28 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2719 Chris Cannon made an mistake. Why is it inexcusable? He says he heard that on the news. And in that story from Foxnews.com, it says just that. Why does it make Cannon a bigot for hearing one news story, but not getting the whole truth? Does Cannon have to be omniscient to not be a bigot? Chris Cannon made an mistake. Why is it inexcusable? He says he heard that on the news. And in that story from Foxnews.com, it says just that. Why does it make Cannon a bigot for hearing one news story, but not getting the whole truth? Does Cannon have to be omniscient to not be a bigot?

]]> By: Jeremy Manning http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2714 Jeremy Manning Thu, 22 Feb 2007 21:42:37 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/02/22/chris-cannon-im-not-a-bigoted-liar/#comment-2714 Anonymous, I heard the day after the shootings about Talovic's religion. It didn't seem to me that they were making any extraordinary effort at keeping it quiet. Jumping to the conclusion that his religion was related to his actions may be understandable since 9/11 but that doesn't mean it isn't foolish. We should wait for more evidence before classifying the attack as an Islamic terrorist act. The last thing we need is irresponsible and bigoted political leaders making up facts about the case. Cannon's actions are inexcusable. Anonymous,

I heard the day after the shootings about Talovic’s religion. It didn’t seem to me that they were making any extraordinary effort at keeping it quiet. Jumping to the conclusion that his religion was related to his actions may be understandable since 9/11 but that doesn’t mean it isn’t foolish. We should wait for more evidence before classifying the attack as an Islamic terrorist act.

The last thing we need is irresponsible and bigoted political leaders making up facts about the case. Cannon’s actions are inexcusable.

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