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	<title>Comments on: Utah Taxpayers Association:  Great At Fiscal Policy&#8230;Bad At Political Sniping</title>
	<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/05/24/utah-taxpayers-association-great-at-fiscal-policybad-at-political-sniping/</link>
	<description>Pragmatic Libertarianism</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Manning</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/05/24/utah-taxpayers-association-great-at-fiscal-policybad-at-political-sniping/#comment-5245</link>
		<author>Jeremy Manning</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 22:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/05/24/utah-taxpayers-association-great-at-fiscal-policybad-at-political-sniping/#comment-5245</guid>
		<description>Andrea,

Utahns don't want vouchers.  For nearly 20 years subsidies for private education have been rejected again and again by right thinking legislators and voters in our state.  If the electorate changes their mind in November (not likely) it represents a major change in electorate opinion.  I want to specify this point because voucher proponents are acting like they are entitled to their program even if the electorate is opposed...even if the constitutional referendum process instructs them to back off.  When Curtis threatens to ignore the results of the referendum if it doesn't go his way and act as if HB174 is the law of the land it really should shock all of us.  In the face of 20 years of opposition from the majority of Utahns this Republican leader is willing to implement vouchers anyway.  That seems like a much bigger deal than the fact that UEA or whoever might sue if the referendum doesn’t go their way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrea,</p>
<p>Utahns don&#8217;t want vouchers.  For nearly 20 years subsidies for private education have been rejected again and again by right thinking legislators and voters in our state.  If the electorate changes their mind in November (not likely) it represents a major change in electorate opinion.  I want to specify this point because voucher proponents are acting like they are entitled to their program even if the electorate is opposed&#8230;even if the constitutional referendum process instructs them to back off.  When Curtis threatens to ignore the results of the referendum if it doesn&#8217;t go his way and act as if HB174 is the law of the land it really should shock all of us.  In the face of 20 years of opposition from the majority of Utahns this Republican leader is willing to implement vouchers anyway.  That seems like a much bigger deal than the fact that UEA or whoever might sue if the referendum doesn’t go their way.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/05/24/utah-taxpayers-association-great-at-fiscal-policybad-at-political-sniping/#comment-5244</link>
		<author>Andrea</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 22:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/05/24/utah-taxpayers-association-great-at-fiscal-policybad-at-political-sniping/#comment-5244</guid>
		<description>I would be shocked, shocked!, if the organized opposition or one of their proxies would commit to refraining from a court challenge if the people approve vouchers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be shocked, shocked!, if the organized opposition or one of their proxies would commit to refraining from a court challenge if the people approve vouchers.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/05/24/utah-taxpayers-association-great-at-fiscal-policybad-at-political-sniping/#comment-5242</link>
		<author>Andrea</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 22:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/05/24/utah-taxpayers-association-great-at-fiscal-policybad-at-political-sniping/#comment-5242</guid>
		<description>You are being very naive in thinking that the voucher opposition would not try to challenge this in court if voters approve vouchers. Kim Burningham, one of the most vocal voucher opponents, was asked by Rep. Greg Hughes on Take Two whether he would want to take this to the courts if the people voted yes. Burningham would not commit one way or the other.

Either the UEA or PTA or LWV or one or more of their proxies would challenge the constitutionality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are being very naive in thinking that the voucher opposition would not try to challenge this in court if voters approve vouchers. Kim Burningham, one of the most vocal voucher opponents, was asked by Rep. Greg Hughes on Take Two whether he would want to take this to the courts if the people voted yes. Burningham would not commit one way or the other.</p>
<p>Either the UEA or PTA or LWV or one or more of their proxies would challenge the constitutionality.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Harris</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/05/24/utah-taxpayers-association-great-at-fiscal-policybad-at-political-sniping/#comment-5231</link>
		<author>Jesse Harris</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 17:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/05/24/utah-taxpayers-association-great-at-fiscal-policybad-at-political-sniping/#comment-5231</guid>
		<description>While I don't doubt that one or two lone gunmen would try litigating vouchers out of the way if HB 148 is upheld at the polls, the idea that the whole of the opposition will get behind such a lawsuit is just plain silly. I'm sure most of the loose cannons could be talked down anyway.

I don't like that the legislature is going to try and force HB 174 to stand in as a replacement should HB 148 fail in November. I think it's too flawed to be able to stand on its own, especially in light of the excellent questions raised by the Board of Education. If voucher proponents are serious on getting a program in place, they should back off on HB 174 and wait to see what happens with HB 148. If the latter fails, table the issue for 5 years or so and re-evaluate it then. (I figure that the record increases in education funding will either show increases in public school performance or huge wastes of money. If the latter, there's a stronger case for vouchers.)

On a side note, I picked one heck of a fight with the UTA over iProvo last month that leaves me thinking that as a group, it's very one-track in its thinking. It's all crunching numbers to come up with a final conclusion with little else included in the analysis. I take most of what they say with a grain of salt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I don&#8217;t doubt that one or two lone gunmen would try litigating vouchers out of the way if HB 148 is upheld at the polls, the idea that the whole of the opposition will get behind such a lawsuit is just plain silly. I&#8217;m sure most of the loose cannons could be talked down anyway.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like that the legislature is going to try and force HB 174 to stand in as a replacement should HB 148 fail in November. I think it&#8217;s too flawed to be able to stand on its own, especially in light of the excellent questions raised by the Board of Education. If voucher proponents are serious on getting a program in place, they should back off on HB 174 and wait to see what happens with HB 148. If the latter fails, table the issue for 5 years or so and re-evaluate it then. (I figure that the record increases in education funding will either show increases in public school performance or huge wastes of money. If the latter, there&#8217;s a stronger case for vouchers.)</p>
<p>On a side note, I picked one heck of a fight with the UTA over iProvo last month that leaves me thinking that as a group, it&#8217;s very one-track in its thinking. It&#8217;s all crunching numbers to come up with a final conclusion with little else included in the analysis. I take most of what they say with a grain of salt.</p>
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