Comments on: An Example Of Intellectual Honesty In The Bloghive Followed By An Anti-UEA Screed http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/10/19/an-example-of-intellectual-honesty-in-the-bloghive-followed-by-an-anti-uea-screed/ Pragmatic Libertarianism Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:58:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: nosurfgirl http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/10/19/an-example-of-intellectual-honesty-in-the-bloghive-followed-by-an-anti-uea-screed/#comment-68272 nosurfgirl Sat, 20 Oct 2007 03:31:51 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/10/19/an-example-of-intellectual-honesty-in-the-bloghive-followed-by-an-anti-uea-screed/#comment-68272 I'm glad, Jeremy... and for the record, I don't think of you as a supporter of UEA just because you're against vouchers. I understand the argument against vouchers... it's a new tax, and one that some feel will be inneficiently and inequitably distributed. I guess my pro-stance is more about, Let's Try It. We gotta try something!!! We gotta change things up. That having been said, if someone could come up with a better scenario that would achieve the same, what I feel would be positive affects, I'd vote against this bill in a second in favor of a better one. I just don't see anyone trying anything new again if this gets thrown out. I’m glad, Jeremy… and for the record, I don’t think of you as a supporter of UEA just because you’re against vouchers. I understand the argument against vouchers… it’s a new tax, and one that some feel will be inneficiently and inequitably distributed. I guess my pro-stance is more about, Let’s Try It. We gotta try something!!! We gotta change things up. That having been said, if someone could come up with a better scenario that would achieve the same, what I feel would be positive affects, I’d vote against this bill in a second in favor of a better one. I just don’t see anyone trying anything new again if this gets thrown out.

]]> By: Jeremy Manning http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/10/19/an-example-of-intellectual-honesty-in-the-bloghive-followed-by-an-anti-uea-screed/#comment-67834 Jeremy Manning Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:54:44 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/10/19/an-example-of-intellectual-honesty-in-the-bloghive-followed-by-an-anti-uea-screed/#comment-67834 Frank, I think you've restated the argument correctly. School choice isn't going to go away. Utahns have been having this argument for more than 20 years now and the debate will continue even if voters eliminate the current plan in the referendum election. Voting against HB148 doesn't have to be the end of the school choice discussion but it is probably the best thing to do for our state. This plan contains more flaws than it does benefits and needs to go. Frank,

I think you’ve restated the argument correctly.

School choice isn’t going to go away. Utahns have been having this argument for more than 20 years now and the debate will continue even if voters eliminate the current plan in the referendum election. Voting against HB148 doesn’t have to be the end of the school choice discussion but it is probably the best thing to do for our state. This plan contains more flaws than it does benefits and needs to go.

]]> By: Frank Staheli http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/10/19/an-example-of-intellectual-honesty-in-the-bloghive-followed-by-an-anti-uea-screed/#comment-67792 Frank Staheli Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:23:10 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/10/19/an-example-of-intellectual-honesty-in-the-bloghive-followed-by-an-anti-uea-screed/#comment-67792 Jeremy, It's helpful for me to know that you "agree with [Pramaphil's] hopes and concerns about the future of school choice. I think it will be possible to develop some form of school choice in the future" and it's ironic and somewhat embarrassing to admit that in all the discussions we've had here and at Simple Utah Mormon Politics, I never thought about the one important point that Green Jello brings up. Let me attempt to rephrase it for my benefit--Despite the fact that current private school students are not allowed to use vouchers, after 13 years there will NO LONGER BE any such students, so by then ALL students will be able to use vouchers to go to a public school. This is why, then, after year 13 it becomes an effective net cost to the state of Utah. You already disabused one of my false notions over on SUMP (about the fact that the legislature DID NOT earmark money saved back to the public schools). Now I've seen the light on another issue. Stay tuned for another of my changes of direction at Simple Utah Mormon Politics! I plan to call it "Voting for Vouchers with My Nose Plugged" ;-) Jeremy,

It’s helpful for me to know that you “agree with [Pramaphil’s] hopes and concerns about the future of school choice. I think it will be possible to develop some form of school choice in the future” and it’s ironic and somewhat embarrassing to admit that in all the discussions we’ve had here and at Simple Utah Mormon Politics, I never thought about the one important point that Green Jello brings up. Let me attempt to rephrase it for my benefit–Despite the fact that current private school students are not allowed to use vouchers, after 13 years there will NO LONGER BE any such students, so by then ALL students will be able to use vouchers to go to a public school. This is why, then, after year 13 it becomes an effective net cost to the state of Utah.

You already disabused one of my false notions over on SUMP (about the fact that the legislature DID NOT earmark money saved back to the public schools). Now I’ve seen the light on another issue.

Stay tuned for another of my changes of direction at Simple Utah Mormon Politics! I plan to call it “Voting for Vouchers with My Nose Plugged” ;-)

]]> By: rmwarnick http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/10/19/an-example-of-intellectual-honesty-in-the-bloghive-followed-by-an-anti-uea-screed/#comment-67740 rmwarnick Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:31:35 +0000 http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2007/10/19/an-example-of-intellectual-honesty-in-the-bloghive-followed-by-an-anti-uea-screed/#comment-67740 I have never been a fan of UEA or NEA. Without them, however, we wouldn't have a chance to defeat the private school voucher plan. This is the first popular referendum in Utah since the 1970s (initiatives are different). The majority of people are not being represented by the legislature, and without a big organization there is no way to get anything on the ballot. I have never been a fan of UEA or NEA. Without them, however, we wouldn’t have a chance to defeat the private school voucher plan. This is the first popular referendum in Utah since the 1970s (initiatives are different). The majority of people are not being represented by the legislature, and without a big organization there is no way to get anything on the ballot.

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