Gerrymandering-UPDATED
This column should be saved by anyone interested in Utah politics. Some of Rolly’s numbers are off (especially the argument that 43% of utahns are likely Democratic voters) but the record of Republican gerrymandering in our state shouldn’t be forgotten. What our Republicans did is a slap in the face to democracy. They really should be ashamed. (I know…it isn’t biologically possible for Utah’s legislature to ever admit they might be wrong about something…but they still should be ashamed.)
UPDATE 12/31/2007 9:15AM: Rep. Craig Frank and Stan Lockhart are pretending to prove Rolly wrong. They attempt to mess with numbers to show that the silly district boundaries Republicans stuck us with in 2001 aren’t benefitting their party. Their argument is that because Republicans run unopposed in so many districts we can’t argue that there are enough Democratic voters in Utah who are being hurt by the corruption they perpetrated on our state after the last census.
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Jeremy, you are absolutely going in the right direction with this one.
Merry Christmas!
Rob
Comment by Rob Miller — December 24, 2007 @ 8:45 am
There is no democracy in this state as there is no two party rule so how can it, democracy, be slapped in the face. Too many Mormons were Bensonized and Hatch has endured with us to remind the faithful of same.
Comment by WP — December 24, 2007 @ 10:43 am
Jeremy,
A couple of quick thoughts. First if you think Rolly is capable of presenting any facts accurately, than you are drinking some nasty liberal bath water. Second, while I agree that it would be better if Utah had a two party system, liberals are well served by plenty of big government, social controlling politicians who claim to be republicans in order to be elected but do not support those values in practice. You need look no further then Rep. Allen’s record for a good example of this.
Comment by Randy — December 24, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
Ugh…I even do this on Christmas…how sad
Randy,
Rolly is never accurate eh? So Republicans didn’t create absolutely bizzare precinct boundaries 6 years ago for the purpose of protecting their legislative monopoly? Was he all wrong about that? What really happened? Please provide some enlightenment.
Who wants plenty of big government? The way I see it the Democrats in Utah are far more likely to bring us smaller government than our longtime big “E” establishment Republicans…especially if it means real partisan competition. At the very least if the Democratic party gained some ground you would likely have a more ideologically pure group of Republicans. Right?
I’m no liberal. I’m more of a pragmatic libertarian. Smart libertarians in Utah are Democrats.
Comment by Jeremy Manning — December 25, 2007 @ 7:19 am
“Smart libertarians in Utah are Democrats”
I would pay good money to see that on a t-shirt.
Comment by jasonthe — December 26, 2007 @ 12:42 pm
I don’t know about the leg races he sited, but for the 4 federal races in 2006, Democrats got 43% of the vote.
Comment by Bob — December 26, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
Thanks Bob…I was a little curious where that 43% number came from. I guess I should have read the article more closely. There was a comment left on Rolly’s piece by someone disputing that number so I wanted to hedge a bit in this post.
jasonthe,
I’ll work on it. I like t-shirts!
I think libertarians are the future of the Democratic Party. That may not please too many economically liberal Democrats but in Utah libertarians are a large constituency who aren’t well served by our state’s loony-tunes socially conservative Republicans. Democrats should move to gain some political power with even some small amount of lip service in favor of smaller government.
Comment by Jeremy Manning — December 26, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
I wholeheartedly agree. Despite who may have gerrymandered to their advantage in the past, it is despicable what the republicans have done to entrench their power. I’m trying to think of how a law would be formulated to prohibit such shenanigans.
WP, How could you use Bensonized and Hatch in the same sentence. Hatch is so diametrically opposite of Benson when it comes to the establishment that they couldn’t be further apart. Besides, Benson only advocates persuasion to get people to come around to understanding the proper role of government. It is ironic that you would use Benson’s name derogatorily in conjunction with gerrymandering, something that he clearly would never advocate.
Comment by Frank Staheli — December 26, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
Maybe there should be a limit as to how many edges each district can have. It can’t be that hard to make up a series of rectangles and squares with similar populations. I don’t even think they make words to describe some of the district boundaries I’ve seen.
Comment by Jesse Harris — December 26, 2007 @ 8:19 pm
Jesse,
I like that idea. Another idea would be a requirement that the commission created to draw up precinct boundaries be composed of equal numbers of members of both parties. I know this means that 3rd parties get the shaft but they don’t really matter much anyway.
We need some method that will ensure that one party isn’t corrupting the system as our Republicans so clearly did last time the lines were drawn.
Comment by Jeremy Manning — December 27, 2007 @ 9:26 am
The point is Frank that both Pres. Benson and Senator Hatch made it clear that being a member of the D party would be admitting you were amoral and could not be a good LD Saint. Hatch said the Dems were the party of drug users, Gays, child abusers and pornographers. This was in Cedar City a couple elections back. When asked about it he denied it but a Trib reporter had it on tape. The point is not about gerrymandering it is about having a less than satisfactory two party system here in UT. Benson and Hatch have done more to destroy the two party system leading to these kinds of abuses in our legislature and state government than any two individuals. Elder Benson’s politics were so out of step he was censured on several occasions and even trundled off to Europe for a period to silence him. He infuriated Harold B. Lee and annoyed Joseph Fielding Smith on numerous occasions. Lee and other members of the Twelve actually walked out of a meeting in which he strayed from his assigned topic and started in on Communists in our Federal govt.
Comment by WP — December 27, 2007 @ 11:26 am
I don’t know if my post at Rep. Frank’s site didn’t take or its webmaster didn’t like it, but I think it’s worthwhile to insert a gerrymander-proof electoral design into the discussion.
Most of the world’s democracies use some form of this design, called proportional representation, full representation, or choice voting, among other terms.
The concept is that ten percent of the vote would yield ten percent of the legislatives seats … similar to what Movimiento Libertario — the Libertarian Party in Costa Rica — enjoys.
Yes, Americans would have to trade in single-member districts and one- or two-party political monopolies for multi-member districts and multi-party systems.
I also encouraged Rep. Frank and the public to call for the formation of a citizens assembly on electoral reform, similar to what has been done in British Columbia.
These reforms are beginning to catch on in America. Visit the web site of FairVote: The Center for Voting and Democracy for more information.
Comment by Rob Latham — December 31, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
Mr. Latham,
Thanks for your comment. I saw an article you wrote a while ago about the problem of gerrymandering while I was researching this post. You make some good points. Unfortunately I don’t have as much faith as you do that Republicans in Utah would ever allow something like proportional representation to happen in here. I agree that it is better in many ways than the all or nothing system so common in the U.S.
Comment by Jeremy Manning — January 1, 2008 @ 2:04 am
You’re welcome, Jeremy.
Electoral change may indeed be slow in coming, but I believe that raising awareness among Utahns of how voters are cheated out of fair elections by the existing rules can help usher in change.
Electoral reformers are encouraged by the local initiatives that passed last year in Sarasota (FL), Aspen (CO), and Pierce County (WA).
I also hope that Democrats will lose enthusiasm over so-called “independent” or bipartisan redistricting commissions. They have failed to bring about more competitive elections where they have been tried (follow the link associated with this post for an analysis of these redistricting commissions). The problem is that with single member districts, you can have outcomes that are more competitive or more representative, but you can’t have both. With multi-member districts you can have both.
Comment by Rob Latham — January 2, 2008 @ 11:37 am
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