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	<title>Comments on: Pettiness</title>
	<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/</link>
	<description>Pragmatic Libertarianism</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1</generator>

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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-323339</link>
		<author>Cliff</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-323339</guid>
		<description>Ooops,

Perhaps we understood what you wrote differently than you meant when you wrote it.

&lt;blockquote&gt;There is some talk that pursuing Walker will bring other legislative unethical behavior into the light but it really seems to me that Utah’s Democrats and their allies are in danger of serious overreach in their pursuit/persecution of Walker.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What do you mean by "in danger of serious overreach".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooops,</p>
<p>Perhaps we understood what you wrote differently than you meant when you wrote it.</p>
<blockquote><p>There is some talk that pursuing Walker will bring other legislative unethical behavior into the light but it really seems to me that Utah’s Democrats and their allies are in danger of serious overreach in their pursuit/persecution of Walker.</p></blockquote>
<p>What do you mean by &#8220;in danger of serious overreach&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Manning</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-323194</link>
		<author>Jeremy Manning</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-323194</guid>
		<description>Cliff,

Welcome and thanks for your comment.  You're being more than a bit obtuse if you're assuming from my post that I'd overlook bribery and corruption.  

No plans to run right now...but thanks for the input!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cliff,</p>
<p>Welcome and thanks for your comment.  You&#8217;re being more than a bit obtuse if you&#8217;re assuming from my post that I&#8217;d overlook bribery and corruption.  </p>
<p>No plans to run right now&#8230;but thanks for the input!</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-322838</link>
		<author>Cliff</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-322838</guid>
		<description>Jer,

Its hard to imagine how one can simply overlook bribery and corruption in politics as you suggest.

I guess you won't be running for public office anytime soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jer,</p>
<p>Its hard to imagine how one can simply overlook bribery and corruption in politics as you suggest.</p>
<p>I guess you won&#8217;t be running for public office anytime soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Manning</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-307407</link>
		<author>Jeremy Manning</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-307407</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Anon,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is exactly because I respect the process that I was opposed to this fishing expedition in the first place.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you have evidence that someone else has done something wrong then do an ethics inquiry aimed at them...not Mr. Walker.  Using the ethics process for purely political purposes (as you and others advocate) taints the whole system.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Our system of ethics enforcement is weak enough as it is.  We don't need to give politicians more reasons to not want to strengthen it in the future.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon,</p>
<p>It is exactly because I respect the process that I was opposed to this fishing expedition in the first place.  </p>
<p>If you have evidence that someone else has done something wrong then do an ethics inquiry aimed at them&#8230;not Mr. Walker.  Using the ethics process for purely political purposes (as you and others advocate) taints the whole system.  </p>
<p>Our system of ethics enforcement is weak enough as it is.  We don&#8217;t need to give politicians more reasons to not want to strengthen it in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-307203</link>
		<author>Anonymous</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 06:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-307203</guid>
		<description>This investigation would have undoubtedly linked Curtis and others, but go ahead and fall for Walker's propaganda Jeremy.  

I would have never thought you would say that the process doesn't matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This investigation would have undoubtedly linked Curtis and others, but go ahead and fall for Walker&#8217;s propaganda Jeremy.  </p>
<p>I would have never thought you would say that the process doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>
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		<title>By: natalie</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-294493</link>
		<author>natalie</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 02:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-294493</guid>
		<description>Jeremy, I disagree.  If Walker was a puppet, and someone in leadership encouraged or supported his illegal behavior, we have a right to know.  It is time for some people to learn that the ends don't justify the means, there are consequences for bad actions, and that Utah deserves more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy, I disagree.  If Walker was a puppet, and someone in leadership encouraged or supported his illegal behavior, we have a right to know.  It is time for some people to learn that the ends don&#8217;t justify the means, there are consequences for bad actions, and that Utah deserves more.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Manning</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-294225</link>
		<author>Jeremy Manning</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-294225</guid>
		<description>Craig,

This whole thing is purely political and it is ugly.  Utahns aren't any better off because of this ethics investigation.  

The. Guy. Lost. The. Election.

He's gone.  We're all better off for it because he was a terrible candidate.  Lets move on.  Over-reaching on this one isn't going to benefit anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig,</p>
<p>This whole thing is purely political and it is ugly.  Utahns aren&#8217;t any better off because of this ethics investigation.  </p>
<p>The. Guy. Lost. The. Election.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s gone.  We&#8217;re all better off for it because he was a terrible candidate.  Lets move on.  Over-reaching on this one isn&#8217;t going to benefit anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: CraigJ</title>
		<link>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-293915</link>
		<author>CraigJ</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.themannings.org/soapbox/2008/06/27/pettiness/#comment-293915</guid>
		<description>Jeremy, how can this be considered petty or irrelevant?  I've read the ethics complaint and it looks like there is more than enough to warrant a review.

A copy is on the Tribune's site:

http://www.sltrib.com/utahpolitics/ci_9697250

If such alleged behaviors do not justify a hearing then we should just dissolve the ethics committee now.

It is also unfair to say this is being driven from the Democrats.  You have ethics-minded representatives from both parties who are sick of the corrupt power network having their way in this state.  Of course Walker's friends and donors (of which Steve Urquhart is one) are trying to minimize this as cheap electioneering.  What else are they going to say?  Walker's alleged actions are very bad for their image.  They are about to launch an expensive ad campaign touting their successes and trying to convince us that they are all honorable folk just looking out for our best interests.  This Walker debable is bad press for them at a very bad time.

And I simply do not understand how filing an ethics complaint amounts to "persecution" (especially given the seriousness of the allegations).  We've heard from Walker's buddies that we should excuse his behavior because he lost the election.  We've seen them try to manipulate our emotions by suggesting that those who are levying these complaints are just "kicking him while he's down."

Are Utahns really going to buy this bullies-masquerading-as-victims baloney?

Thanks...Craig.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy, how can this be considered petty or irrelevant?  I&#8217;ve read the ethics complaint and it looks like there is more than enough to warrant a review.</p>
<p>A copy is on the Tribune&#8217;s site:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sltrib.com/utahpolitics/ci_9697250" rel="nofollow">http://www.sltrib.com/utahpolitics/ci_9697250</a></p>
<p>If such alleged behaviors do not justify a hearing then we should just dissolve the ethics committee now.</p>
<p>It is also unfair to say this is being driven from the Democrats.  You have ethics-minded representatives from both parties who are sick of the corrupt power network having their way in this state.  Of course Walker&#8217;s friends and donors (of which Steve Urquhart is one) are trying to minimize this as cheap electioneering.  What else are they going to say?  Walker&#8217;s alleged actions are very bad for their image.  They are about to launch an expensive ad campaign touting their successes and trying to convince us that they are all honorable folk just looking out for our best interests.  This Walker debable is bad press for them at a very bad time.</p>
<p>And I simply do not understand how filing an ethics complaint amounts to &#8220;persecution&#8221; (especially given the seriousness of the allegations).  We&#8217;ve heard from Walker&#8217;s buddies that we should excuse his behavior because he lost the election.  We&#8217;ve seen them try to manipulate our emotions by suggesting that those who are levying these complaints are just &#8220;kicking him while he&#8217;s down.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are Utahns really going to buy this bullies-masquerading-as-victims baloney?</p>
<p>Thanks&#8230;Craig.</p>
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